Navigating Emotions and Healing with Tara Schuster

Welcome to Let It Be Easy with Susie Moore.

Susie Moore:

I had heard Tara Schuster's name quite a few times before I actually encountered her work. And I always take that as an omen. My friends, if someone's name is coming up amongst different friends and I hear about somebody more than once in a short period of time, I pay attention. And I'm so happy I did. I really enjoyed this conversation with Tara. You may know her as the author of By Yourself, the Fucking Lilies and or Glow in the Fucking Dark. My, how do I describe Tara? She has a comedy background. She used to work at Comedy Central. She is such a fun and insightful writer. She's a real person. And in this conversation, we go deep about a few of life's uncomfortable topics, losing your place in the world, getting fired, having no relationship, even with some members of your close immediate family. I feel like Tara is really here to be an example of what's possible to show us healthier ways of living, show us ways to love ourselves, and to deal with the inevitable discomfort that life brings through various challenges with awareness and a sense of humor. I'm delighted to share with you today my conversation with Tara Schuster.

Tara Schuster. Look what I have here.

Tara Schuster:

I recognize those.

Susie Moore:

Oh My gosh. Your two books. Welcome to the Let It Be Easy podcast.

Tara Schuster:

Thank you. I've been waiting to come on. I'm a big fan, and as I told you, actually, I sent you an Instagram photo. I literally have a bracelet that I wear every day that says, let it be easy every single day. So I buy in, I drink the Kool-Aid hard.

Susie Moore:

Yay. Oh my gosh. That makes me smile. And I have to say a couple of people, your name has been mentioned to me by three people now. And so I was like, okay, this is a sign. Tara needs to come on. We got to talk about all the things. But it was our mutual friend, Farnoosh Torabi.

Tara Schuster:

Yes.

Susie Moore:

Laura Belgrade. And then also Elise Luna, who was just on the podcast.

Tara Schuster:

Oh, Elise. I was like, who's the third? I know Elise. Yes, of course. Excellent.

Susie Moore:

So you've been in my vibration, in my You are meant to be here right now. That's what I meant to say.

Tara Schuster:

Well, I'm so excited to be here, and I feel like all of us need to go to dinner. I, because that would be the most wonderful evening ever.

Susie Moore:

Epic, Epic dinner. I know. I agree. So, Tara, okay. Your two books, you're striking a chord, and I feel like it's, particularly with young women now, age is a difficult thing to define. We all have different opinions on age, but I want to just kick off by asking you what do you think it is that's really connecting you with lots of young women everywhere?

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. Well, it's, the funny thing is that I get so many dms that are like, I'm outside of your demographic, but this book has helped me. I think people think the book is for younger people because I use curse words because it's pretty current. But actually when I teach workshops or who are my newsletter subscribers, it's everywhere from 23 to 75. It's a really wide range, but I think, so my books are about, I grew up neglected, psychologically abused, and a house where things came to die. It was super unfun. It was a not fun childhood. And I left my childhood feeling like I was worthless. That was the central message I took away was, I am worthless. Nobody's taking care of me. That's because I don't deserve care. And when you exit your childhood that way, with no skills, so not only that, I had no skills.

All I had was the carrot of external validation. This is basically all that propelled me. When you have no skills, you really have to, I had to have a rock bottom moment in order to think, oh, I need to build some skills. But to answer your question, I think that there are a lot of us who, we didn't have "the worst childhood ever". I didn't have the worst childhood ever. But because it wasn't the worst case, I wasn't treating it with enough respect. I was like, oh, I should feel fine. Ultimately, I got into an Ivy League school and got a really good job, so I should be fine. But I really had to recognize that doesn't really matter. I'm not fine. I'm not fine at all. I really need help and I really need to help myself. And so I think readers across the spectrum relate to that feeling of a disconnection. I should be okay, but maybe not, but there's this thing and should I really deal with it? And that people are awakening to, yeah, you deserve to deal with it. You're allowed to deal with it.

Susie Moore:

Oh my gosh, Tara, you know what's so interesting?  I have had people over the years say to me, well, Susie, you grew up in domestic violence shelters. So growing up on welfare, having this chaotic, unstable experience, and they almost say they feel guilty or, well, I had food and I went to school that I lived in one house and my dad didn't beat my mom. No one was addicted to drugs. I'm like, well, there a,  suffering is suffering, right? And it's experienced differently. And in a way, I feel as if I almost have this advantage where I can really seek help. And there's such a obvious reason, and no one would question it. And I think that there is this secret like, oh, it wasn't so bad, but my mom never really spoke to me. And so I love that this is, it's almost like you're giving a voice to so many people who feel like they're maybe not entitled to one.

Tara Schuster:

I think that's why the books have struck a chord more than anything. Lori Gottlieb talks a lot about

Susie Moore:

Also a guest.

Tara Schuster:

Yep. Oh, love Laurie. Also a friend. She talks a lot about the hierarchy of pain, that nobody, whatever's real for you, how you're feeling, that actually is reality. And nobody is allowed to be. well I've had more pain than you. And one thing I talk about in my books is that's not helpful if you ignore your own pain because you say, oh, well, Susie had it worse, or Tara had it worse. Okay, well, that doesn't help you become a better person. That doesn't help you heal and be a better member of our society. And it certainly doesn't help me. I don't care. Please get help. I'm not like, oh, I'm offended that you sought help for whatever your issue is. So it's sort of even condescending to, oh, she had it so much worse. So I'm really trying to help people unlearn that there's any guilt or stigma around just owning your experience. It doesn't even matter if it felt bad, if that's what your takeaway was, and you don't have coping mechanisms. Literally, whatever you went through doesn't matter. What you need to heal is what you came to believe about yourself and now how you move through the world.

Susie Moore:

And so your first book "By yourself, the fucking lilies", love the name. You speak about self-care practices, because you had to teach these. You have had to love yourself. You had to teach yourself. I mean, I have so many mixed feelings even about the expression. I think it means a lot of things to some people. There's even a weird pressure to apply self-care in some cases that can actually be more harmful than actually useful than just chilling out. What are some self-care practices that you've stuck with that have had the most impact on you?

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. It's funny because the book came out at the beginning of the pandemic, so three years ago. But as you know, when you're writing a book, it's years previous, you've been working on it. So I started working on lilies before the term self-care was even a thing. It wasn't hashtag self-care, hashtag rose all day it by spas. And so the first thing I want to say is, for me, when I use that term, what I mean by self-care is an honest accounting of your emotional wounds and bringing the healing that you need to those wounds. So a vacation to Tulum is awesome, great. And if you want to buy me a ticket to join you, cool. So there, but that actually can never be in and of itself self-care because it's not applying the emotional healing that you really need. So when I look at self-care tools, most everything in both books are free. They're free, easy, pragmatic to do. I'd say the chief self-care tool that I've used for 12 years is journaling. Journaling. There's so much science behind why it works, how it works, the wild effects it can have on anxiety, depression, and actually physical symptoms by reducing cortisol. Something as stupid as like, oh, you wrote this thing. Now your nervous system can calm down. You got it out of you. And recently, I've sort of have a conspiracy theory about journaling. Would you like to hear my pray tell? Yes.

I feel like there's still stigma around journaling that people think it's the province of 16-year-old girls who writing a diary and it's narcissistic or something like that. And I think part of the reason that it's not seen as a first line of defense for psychological issues is because not many people can make money off of you. This isn't therapy. You're not paying a practitioner. You're not on pills for some indefinite amount of time, which by the way, I am. I'm on Wellbutrin. But it's such like nobody gains from you journaling. And so I really think that's why it's not more touted, even if it's sort of like a subconscious thing. But in my experience, journaling, it builds self-awareness, which is the first step in any healing journey is are you aware this is even happening? It gives you perspective because then it's on the page out of your head.

You can step away. And so you have more chances to reclaim your agency because now you see it. You can change the story. You can see this is a story that even if it's 100% true story, it's still a story. The meaning I'm fixing to it how it all happened. So I really think that journaling is just, that's the tool that above everything else, I'm like, if you could do one thing to help yourself, just journal a page today, ask yourself, how do I feel is the best number one journaling prompt? And in my second book, glow in the Fucking Dark, I have my own emotion wheel to help you feel your feelings, but I don't care. Just Google emotion wheel, Google any emotion wheel and start. It's called affect labeling, just writing down how you feel. It's like immediate relief and feels so good, and there's so much science behind why it works. And so yeah, journaling with a side of how do I feel? Well on your way.

Susie Moore:

I really like the labeling, the emotions so we can create some distance around them. It can feel so consuming. It can just feel like, oh my God, this feeling, it's so big and it's ever going to go away. And we say, I am not. I'm experiencing, or there's some fear in my body right now. It's like I'm scared or I'm mad. What emotions have you found with the emotion real or just in your own practice are once that we neglect or fail to state the most often?

Tara Schuster:

So the biggest that gets misnomer, I would say, or mislabeled emotion is anxiety. I think, and I write about in my second book Glow, I had done a lot of healing. I mean a decade's worth of healing. And I was feeling really good about myself, but weirdly anxious. I'd wake up every morning in a panic, my heart racing, just saying to myself, oh, I'm such an anxious person. I'm just such an anxious person. And so my friends actually suggested I go to a psychiatrist and I was dragging my feet because I'm like, no, I'm this healed, evolved person. I don't need help, even though I preach to everybody else, use the tools, whatever, who cares? I'm like, no, not me. Finally, I go and I'm talking to the psychiatrist and we're going through everything, and she brings up, she's like, are you in a relationship?

Yes, I have a boyfriend. Tell me about him. And I started telling, well, he's amazing and he's great, but I don't feel safe with him. And when I say safe, I mean he would lie about things all the time. He would say, I bought your book at every single bookstore in America to help your sales. And I'm like, okay, that doesn't sound possible. Or he once forgot where he went to high school and forgot the name. He was like, I'm actually just, where I'm struggling is the fake name. I gave it in the book for legal reasons. So he forgot the name of his high school and what city it was in, but he was lying about it. So he was constantly lying to me. And it really, I always felt uneven. I like reality, what was reality? And my psychiatrist looked at me and I'm like, oh God, I'm so anxious.

And she's like, you're not anxious, you're furious. And it was like a mind blown, the moment she said it, I knew it was true. Oh my God, I'm furious that this man lies to me all the time. I'm furious at myself that I haven't said anything. Why am I accepting this? And so anxiety is often a secondary emotion that we feel that's pushing down other emotions. So it's pushing down our grief, it's pushing down our rage is pushing down our envy, and then that horrible heartbeat, we feel it is anxiety, but it's a result of, oh, because I have oppressed this thing within me that really wants to come out. And so using the emotion wheel, that's the one I most often see people really have huge results with, is the moment they stop saying, well, I'm just an anxious person, and they say, I am feeling anxiety. I wonder what's underneath of it.

Susie Moore:

Isn't it interesting that we're so quick to label ourselves as anxious? It's kind of acceptable to be anxious maybe even means that you care, right? Or that you're like, and I'm such a perfectionist, whereas being angry is not that ladylike, is it really? And anger just repel. It's just like being angry is a bit of a no-No, especially for women.

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. I call it, it's like in the Scarlet Letter, the A of anxiety. I think it's the new hysteria. Well, she's just hysterical. She's just anxious. Or even saying that we clinging to as a status. Well, I'm just an anxious person. That's why I've so type A, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, okay, well, maybe that's not a fixed part of you. And why would you want to self-describe as anything that is fixed in that realm other than loving, kind, anxious. You're just anxious, you're a diagnosis. I don't think so.

Susie Moore:

And the way that you write, Tara, all of your experiences, you write with such humor, which is I think what makes it also so digestible because heavy stuff, if we can interpret it in a way where we're also laughing, I mean, you have your background in comedy, and that's actually kind of what kicked off your second book. You were unceremoniously, I guess, kind of let go from your job, comedy Central. Oh, why I think we've all been there. Or we'll be there at some point. It happens. Could you set the stage for us, because I know the book has such a great opening as to how you came to be, and then I've got some questions.

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. So I kind of said childhood was a total mess. Status was what I had. And I used my status also to say, I'm not a weirdo. I won to the outside world. Okay, yeah, I had this weird childhood, but now look at me. I'm so glamorous. And I ran shows like Keyan Peele or David Spade's Show for the Network, and I'm at the Emmy's and very Hollywood, and it was like a magic trick because I was unceremoniously laid off at the beginning of the pandemic from working at Comedy Central was the only job I ever had. I worked there, I think 12 years. If you count my internship there, people actually introduced me. Tara Schuster, comedy Central. It was my married last name. It really defined me. And so when I had that identity taken away, I just went into free fall. I mean, first off, how many of us were questioning everything at the beginning of the pandemic, how I was single in an apartment with no family in LA spiraling and in that spiraling, without a job, without an identity, my deepest traumas, the ones that I had really buried and thought I could never heal, because how could you heal something if it happened so early in your life?

Those came surging to the surface, and instead of dealing with them, I just thought, you know what? I'm an anxious person. I'm anxious because of the 2020 election, so I'm going to move to Arizona and I'm going to help. I'm going to do something. This was like my solution to my internal problems was I'm going to do something external that has nothing to do with this. And so in a matter of two days, I packed up a bunch of stuff like my Vitamix, the most important 10 pounds of books that I would never crack open. And I headed towards Arizona, and on the road there, I had a full body dissociative episode where I could see my hands on the wheel, but they did not appear to be my hands. I felt completely disconnected from myself. And it was now looking back, very dangerous. I was speeding, feeling out of body, having a panic attack, love child with a dissociative episode, with a depressive thing. I was a mess. And right then my psychiatrist called me randomly my therapist, and told me, she asked, are you safe? And I'm like, yeah, I'm totally safe. She's like, I don't think so. Can you pull over? And it was in that moment where I realized, whoa, I have been going so hard at life so hard at healing, hustling, the creed of hustle is all I know. I got to pull over. And it just happened. I mean, now I feel like this is getting very long, but I will just end it with,

I'm like, this is real play by play. Now you don't need to read the first chapter. So I had obviously been really smart about this whole drive, and it was nighttime. I didn't need to drive to Arizona at that hour. I didn't need to make this even more difficult myself by being on dark roads. But I did. And so I pulled over and I'm on Highway 40 in the Mojave Desert, so you can really see the stars out at night. And it's this black night. The world is awful. I mean, it's pandemic. We're scared. I've just been laid off all this trauma. I feel horrible. And I look up at the stars and I wonder, can I shine like that? I glow even in the darkest, darkest night. Can I glow? And I remembered we're actually made of stars. Not like some cute Etsy thing. Love Etsy, by the way. So not putting it down, but not on a mug, basically, is what I'm saying. The carbon in your muscles, the iron in your blood, literally science come from stars. So the answer had to be yes. And the question was, well, how? And so that's what the entire book is about. It's a journey to how do I let that inner shine, that literal inner stardust? How do I let that out and glow? Because I know the universe gave it to me,

Susie Moore:

Tara. It's interesting, right? Because we go through life and we're like, oh, I'm all healed now. We're like, oh, we're like never like, oh, I've dealt with my mother issue. I mean, actually, I got divorced in my early twenties, and I was like, no, I always have hot books. I'm like a guru. I'm like, Buddha,

Tara Schuster:

I'm good.

Susie Moore:

Oh, I'm absolutely just like a plus, right? Then you go through something like a divorce or being laid off from a job, a big shift, and you're like, oh, shit. You're like, huh. This again, it's almost like it's unfair. It's like, come, man. I mean, I'm in my thirties, you're in your thirties. And I'm like, I know this is going to happen. I think you need to heal a thousand times.

Tara Schuster:

Oh, it's just, oh, it's never done. It's never done. How about I wrote a self-help book that did really well, and now you're fucking kidding me. I have to do more. How long do I have to spend on this topic? Please, God, no. That was my only reaction. I wasn't like, yay, more healing. I was like, you are got to be kidding me. That was the reaction

Susie Moore:

I had Gabor Mate on the podcast earlier this year.

Tara Schuster:

Wonderful.

Susie Moore:

And he said, I thought this was so funny and accurate. He said, on my gravestone, he's like, do you know what I think I'm going to say? And I was like, oh my gosh. And he's like, "Life, it was much harder than I thought it was going to be"

And I'm like, well, welcome to that. Let it be easy podcast. Frankly, for me, what this represents is just non-resistance in so many ways. So even seeking your own healing, going, okay, yeah, there's something for me to do here. There's something for me to learn. There's a new level. So since that experience, since that episode, that's scary episode in the car. How are you doing? How have you come from? Because now of course, you're see, we can swap one identity for another, right? It's like a comedy central author, and we can get attached to that too, right? It's always a tricky thing. How are you doing now, Tara?

Tara Schuster:

I think very well, because I am less attached to those identities. So I've become really clear on who I am, basically, how do I want to show up in the world? I've got my core values, which actually are sharing my creativity, love slash connection. I'm actually going to look up my wall. I have it written down, curiosity, exploration and Wellness. And I keep those on the wall next to me to make decisions.

Susie Moore:

Like a filter.

Tara Schuster:

Yeah, exactly. If I'm going to take on this project, does it meet those four criteria? If I'm going to date this person, does he meet this criteria? Is my mental health going to be? Is he so on his own journey that my own mental health is going to be taxed by this? So I am way less attached to author comedy central executive, and I've actually been, I can't believe I cannot believe this, but I've actually had spells of total contentment.

Susie Moore:

I know it's Is that allowed?

Tara Schuster:

It's freaky. It's so freaky that I write in my journal every day that I feel content. I'm like, content. Oh my God. And then I have to be like, don't clinging, don't clinging, go. Okay. And on the bad days, which there still are plenty. I would say 50% of the time, I'm able to step back and, oh, this is a mood. It will pass. Or this is actually a flashback to how I used to feel. This is a younger version of myself taking over. Can I step back 50% of the time I do that 50%. I'm just crying on the couch. The healing is never over. But I would say, I can't believe that I can feel contentment. I didn't even think I could feel stability, much less contentment.

Susie Moore:

Isn't it remarkable when you observe and it's not visible to anybody outside of you, right? It's just, it's your own little secret love affair you have with yourself when you're just like, I actually feel good, and I don't even want to say it. I don't even,

Tara Schuster:

Yeah, I don't want to say it, but

Susie Moore:

There's a steadiness. It's like a feeling of being calm

Tara Schuster:

Or, yeah. Well, I think my friends would say that I'm very different than I've ever that it's been, I've been different people in the past few years, and I'm a version of, I know I'm showing up in the world the way I want to, and I can see it reflected in healthier and healthier relationships where I'm less defensive and people can confide in me more. So I think they don't know why necessarily. They don't know. Oh, because I'm content and peaceful with myself. But I do think the people around you really feel it in a quite significant way.

Susie Moore:

Yes. I was just recently in Australia, my husband's Australia, and we went back for a wedding and a couple of my friends commented that I'm just so much more calm. That was the word. And I was like, I don't think there could be a better compliment that I could have.

Tara Schuster:

Oh my God, yeah,

Susie Moore:

You look so hot mean, or You are clearly X, Y, Z. I'm like much calmer. And I'm like, who? What

Tara Schuster:

Did you just say that was

Susie Moore:

A surprise? I'm like, because we almost don't notice, right? The change happens gradually and the shifts kind of happen. But I think, yeah, I mean, it's less dancing, less impressive, less just moving from a place of urgency or something isn't even real. Is that how you experience it too?

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. There's a certain frequency to my anxiety, I need to hustle to be the best status. I really notice when I'm in that mindset. And also, I really now notice when I'm being super reactive. I example, I'm dating somebody and they didn't text me, and then I was like, well, I'm just going to text him that I'm done. We would just be friends. I'm just pulling the plug on this because for my wellness, I don't want to be dealing with this. And I was like, well, these feelings, this has the frequency of when I'm super reactive, not in a good place. Let me not send this text. I mean, I had written it 10 times about how I was going to end things in my notes on my phone. So

Susie Moore:

The extreme nature of it, right? It's like I don't have me for a few hours, so we are done. It's black and white thinking. It's like, well, you can't abandon me. I'll reject you first.

Tara Schuster:

I'll reject you first. Yeah, exactly. And I was able to catch myself, and of course he texted me, and then everything was fine, but I could feel it. I could feel, oh, no, I'm in a super reactive mode. Let me not do further damage to myself. Let me just actually sit this out and take some time for me. And it wasn't pleasant time. I'm not always the best at calming myself. I'm getting better and better, but at least I wasn't harming myself. I wasn't harming anyone else. I wasn't harming myself. I was just recognizing, oh man, something has been tripped up in you. Some attachment. I know you're, I was listening to your attachment episode earlier today. There's some attachment wound, or there's something is being triggered. Let me chill the fuck out, just drop out of society for two hours and then I'll come back.

Susie Moore:

And what do you do in those two hours, right? I'm like, do you have a cigarette? Do you put on the tv? Do you have a tequila? Do you just go to sleep? What are you doing?

Tara Schuster:

I was just like, I think I watched Formula One racing.

Susie Moore:

That stresses me out. I'm like, they're going to die, but hey, whatever works.

Tara Schuster:

I've recently become a huge fan. And so I believe what I did was I sat on the couch and just watched stuff where it's my kind of junk food. It doesn't really matter, but there is some skill and there's something interesting to it. But just to be clear, those hours were awful. It sucked. It's not like it was a heaviness. I felt good. I felt bad, I felt tension. And I really had to just say to myself like, Hey, man, remember when you put in your journal that you were content? We'll, get back there. Just ride this out. Ride this out. Don't call anybody unless you're calling a friend to be like, I'm in a bad place.

Susie Moore:

Yes. And can you just listen for a minute and can I just walk this out with you in my mind? Yeah. Yeah. See, and isn't that such a great sense of satisfaction when you're like, wow, I'm handling this so much better than I used to theatrics. I used to be blah, and not with you. Me too. Totally. It's like, okay. Or who can I even punish? Someone's going to have to suffer with me. It's like, what can I do to create a fight or something? And then you go, actually, I'm just going to dwell on this, or I am just going to be,

Tara Schuster:

It's a huge, I mean, the way to measure growth is, well, how would we all keep going through the same pattern so many times? So really, I think the best measurement of growth is how would I have dealt with this a year ago, five years ago, whatever timeline you want to give it, and how am I dealing with it now? How I would've dealt with it 10 years ago is I probably would've had a full blown meltdown, panic attack, crying awful, maybe ruin the relationship, text the person 15 times. And I slowly have worked myself out of that to the point where I am proud, very proud of how I handled that situation. That's how I want to show up.

Susie Moore:

Oh, my second husband, so my current husband, we've been married now for, it'll be 14 years in January and early in our marriage, he wanted to leave. I was so difficult to be with. I would really pick fights with everything. Oh, yes. I wanted to control everything. A small thing could make me explode. I felt my anger, it couldn't be contained. And he was like, I could feel him withdrawing. I knew. And he was like, I dunno, he, I'm really sorry. I don't want to mess anything up for you. Because we also had a visa in the US and all the, and he's like, I want to do everything, but I can't really take you anymore. It's too much. Wow. And that's what made me go and get help, because initially I was like, I'm doing it for him. I've just got to make this work. And then I'm like, wow, I didn't even care about my own feelings. I'm like, this is going to work. I'm not losing this man. And I'm like, wow. For me to just feel more calm, for me to get what it is that I need. When you say text people or send the dude 10 messages, it's like we freak out and then we're embarrassed by that behavior, but it's us that's suffering.

Tara Schuster:

Oh yeah.

Susie Moore:

Seeking help is like, it's better than anything. Forget getting a calf. Forget a massage, forget it. Soothing yourself. Is the prize feeling better? Is the prize, right?

Tara Schuster:

Absolutely. And I think people don't tackle these bigger issues, or I think it becomes normalized, like, oh, it's normal in my body to feel 10 out of 10 anxious and you don't know otherwise. And you really, we all have to. I think for me, just doing as much research as I have done and experienced, I actually asked Richard Schwartz, you know, have you had him on?

Susie Moore:

Not yet, no. Maybe.

Tara Schuster:

Oh, you got to have him on. He's the founder of Internal Family Systems, and I have a chapter in Glow about internal family systems, which I find to be the most effective form of therapy. If you just wanted to cut to the chase, it basically says you have all these different parts of you, and each part is working for your benefit, even if it feels bad, even if it's doing something wrong. And Richard is his friends call him Dick, but I'm not his friend. So I'm always like Richard. And then he signs a dick and I'm like, Richard,

Susie Moore:

I know you're saying Dick, frankly too. Yeah.

Tara Schuster:

I'm like, I'm out. I'm Dr. Richard Schwartz on it. Every email I asked him, we were on a zoom, and I just said, is it possible to feel peaceful and to heal these things? Really? Are you really healed? Really? Is it real? And he was like, yes.

And it was like, I just trust him. He's like the real deal. And he's so smart and everything's backed by science. And he wasn't saying that he doesn't still do work, but he was saying an overall, I am leading a peaceful life, a contented life on my emotions aren't taking over. I feel fulfilled. He said it was possible. So that was one of the times where I was like, okay, well, if he says it's possible, all I need to do is work. This isn't magic. He wasn't preordained to begin the state. Nobody is. It really is just working these tools. So I don't even remember how we got on that.

Susie Moore:

No, it doesn't matter. We're here. I love it. I joke. I go to the church of Byron Katie. She's my, oh, she is my number one. I find it coming back to just the truth, reality. Also, Anthony D's work, if you'd like his,

Tara Schuster:

I'm actually going to, I don't know. I'm writing that down.

Susie Moore:

Give it a while, Tara. I feel like you might love it. His book's called Awareness. And what I've learned after reading so much self-help consumed so much over the years is that the message is always the same, delivered in different formats, speak to different people in different ways based on their own styles. But it's just coming back to reality and the fact that maybe in this moment, okay,

Tara Schuster:

Absolutely.

Susie Moore:

And it sounds oversimplified, but I think sometimes the most honest things in life are deceptively simple. It's like, look, we're sitting. Is everything okay?

Tara Schuster:

Yeah.

Susie Moore:

In this moment, is it okay?

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. Being present. I think two of the hardest states to achieve are presence and self-compassion. They sound so simple and so easy. But for me, it actually takes quite a bit of work and constant practice to feel either of them. And the only way I actually now can feel self-compassion, when I used to go to yoga studio and it says, self-compassion on the wall, I'm like, fuck you, no thank you. Or a meditation teacher's like, let's tap into our self, the river of self. I'm like, what are steps one through five? I don't believe you. But actually through doing IFS and learning to accept myself, I now can be in a state of self-compassion. And so those two, to your point, it sounds so simple. The biggest truths usually sound so simple. And they're like, wait. But the whole society I've been living in has conditioned me against this. This is in no way natural to this society. So I'm going to have to swim really hard against a stream here.

Susie Moore:

It's funny too, isn't it? Because sometimes we think that there is a right or a wrong way to live. We think that do all of these things, don't do those things, follow this, don't follow that. And there's all these judgments that we have around it. I know that a lot of people have spoken to me over the years, and I think this is true for you, I could be wrong, but a lot of people don't have a relationship with their family. So maybe if they have a sibling, yes or no, perhaps, but their parents are both alive. So my dad's been dead for a long time, but my relationship with my mom is as good as it can be. But I think you don't have a relationship with your mom. Is that right? Yeah. You've spoken about that. Yeah. I know this is personal. I just see increasingly this is the case. It's the healthiest option, right? For some people, if someone's in that phase right now or they think maybe I need some real space, or is it okay? Is that allowed? What has your work led you to believe? Yeah.

Tara Schuster:

Well, first off, ask any question, because I'm the one who wrote two memoirs, so I didn't want to be personal.

Susie Moore:

You're open. Yeah,

Tara Schuster:

That's on me. That's really on me. But I think the first thing to recognize is how hard that is. If you're in the position where you are thinking of cutting someone out of your life, it's gotten that bad hand on your heart, and it's okay, sweetheart, like, wow, I don't deserve to be here. Wow, this is difficult. And I think particularly with moms, it's the most stigma. There aren't movies where there're just estranged, and that's the end. People get back together. The mom, they hold each other's hand on a deathbed and things are magically healed. Whatever. We don't talk about it. It's completely taboo. And I was once actually dating a rabbi, which is a completely different, if you'd like to hear about me dating a rabbi, read the chapter, the Hot Rabbi in Glow.

Susie Moore:

What did the rabbi say about it? Was he hoping to heel?

Tara Schuster:

Well, so the hot Rabbi and I were on a hike and we're talking about it, and he said, you're going against one of God's commandments to honor your parents. Do you really want to do that? And the fact that he could even say that, what I thought was, wow, you're lucky that you don't even know what it would be like to be in the position I'm in where I even have to consider this. This is not something I ever wanted to consider. I would love to have a healthy functioning mom in my life. And my second thought was, it is just so stigmatized. So first off, if you're in that position, I just want to say you don't deserve to be, it's awful hand on heart. Okay, sweetheart, any self-care that you can do for that is amazing. And I would say it is a really strong choice.

It's a really powerful reclaiming of your agency to say, I don't deserve to be treated like this to create a boundary. So let's say, and the boundary could be anything. It could be, I'm not talking to my mom at all. I'm under these conditions. I'm talking to my mom. But you actually don't have to think about it as a forever thing. It is very serious, and you can take it a little less seriously so that it's easier to do. So if you think in this moment, this sucks, in this moment, I see that the healthiest I'm intuitively being pulled towards, I can't have her in my life, don't think about it. And that's forever. Think about it right now. I can't have her in my life right now. And something to consider is if you don't draw a boundary, there's no way that relationship will heal.

There's like 99.9%. It's going to stay the same because the other person has no incentive to change. They do not have the information. There's no stakes in it for them. So why would that person change? And that's my relationship with my dad. I actually stopped talking to him three years ago at the beginning of Covid, and two years later he got Covid. And I was like, my dad's older. He's 80. And I was like, well, whatever. I'm rushing to my dad's side. I don't care. And what I found out was that he had been in therapy for the past two years to answer the question, why isn't my daughter speaking to me? And he was wildly different. I actually call him dad two because dad two is non-defensive, says things like, I'm proud of you, completely different person. And though he would tell you that it was very painful for him.

When I stopped talking to him, it gave him back his life because he had to step away from how he was doing things and question what's going on here? And it wasn't just me. It was much bigger issues with him that he's wrestling with. And so I always tell that story not to say that people will change because people, it's rarely the case. They have to want to change. I think this was a gift from lady God straight to me was like, you can have a dad for a few years. I don't know how long my dad will be with us, but now at least I can say I've had the experience of having a dad in the past couple years.

So I always tell that story with the caveat people, you are not making the boundary so that someone else will change, but if you don't make the boundary, there's no chance that you will because there's no consequence. There's no big moment where they have to look in the mirror and ask, well, why is this happening then? And you don't have enough distance to do your own healing, because that's what I was doing in the meanwhile, was then I had the space to do my own healing. So that's what I would say about if you're feeling that pull, it's serious and it's not serious. It's strong, and it's also soft. It's also loving towards that person, giving them a chance. You don't have to think of it as, I'm the world's worst person. What kind of daughter cuts off or son cuts off their relationship with their mom?

Susie Moore:

And people don't like it. They're make up with your mother. They're like, imagine Someone's like, well, she can't be a good girl if she doesn't speak to a parent. We start to all of this weird judgment.

Tara Schuster:

I've been told that,

Susie Moore:

Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. And you'll forever be anyone, will forever be women get it worse, right? Men can just be going through something, but we are supposed to be so serving of others. And I love how you add the layer of ease with, for now, it's almost like if you ever work with addiction or work with anybody, I learned this from Al-Anon that you don't set even a, it's like, well, today we won't. Or they used, they don't do it anymore, but it's called the hour by hour method. I won't have a drink for an hour. And then you can do that. And then we just say, it's just for the day, for today. Today. Give me the strength today. And I mean, these are of course, different situations, but life is constantly changing. We don't know what other people are doing. We sometimes the most heartache is the biggest blessing. Of course, we don't want it, but we learn the hard way. Do you still have hope for that with your mom? May I ask?

Tara Schuster:

I do not. My mom has mental health problems that go beyond. My mom's a helicopter mom, and I don't think she has the self-awareness that she even, she's basically trapped in her own mind, and it's very, very sad. And so in understanding, wow, this really has nothing to do with me. My mom actually didn't get to live a life that I would want because there's something seriously wrong. Not like I'm the only relationship in her life that's difficult. Every single one I've been able to grow a lot of alchemize my anger into compassion for, that's awful. I'm sure the way I interact with children, my best friend has three kids. And sometimes I, like Mary Poppin style, stay next door, and it's the best. I give them treats and then I get to bounce like peace. I don't have to deal with you anymore. But the way I feel towards those kids is I just want to protect them. I just want to love them. I just want to hold their hand. And the fact that that wasn't my mom's instinct tells me everything I need to know, so I don't have hope. And I have written to her to say, here's why I'm not speaking to you. The door is always open. I have hope for my own healing, but I don't have hope that she's suddenly going to change

Susie Moore:

And is reality. Right? But this is part of it too. It's like, I think, like you said, it's not in a movie, right? Because in the movie, there'd be some big glorious reunion and everyone's sorry. But that isn't always how it goes. And that's also okay. It's why it's probably led you to do so much of the work that you do now that heals others, and we'll continue to in ways that you can't even foresee yet because there's so much to live.

Tara Schuster:

I think the reason that I share these stories is because it gives them meaning. I don't think everything happens for a reason, but I can give it a reason. And so in sharing something like the story with my mom, other people, I hope feel less alone with what they're experiencing and also have some practical tools, because I love taking notes and I love writing little stories. So hopefully it's somewhat entertaining and not the most depressing thing you've ever done. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

Oh yeah. When you read your book, I mean, it's far. These are good. I mean, I think that that's really an art, being able to deliver something in a way that's digestible yet serious, because also life, we can't really take it too seriously, can we? Any of it. I mean, no matter what, no matter how terrible, sometimes you just got to go.

Tara Schuster:

My chief objective was, is this book entertaining what I wanted? Both books, first book in particular by yourself, the fucking lilies. When I was pitching it to publishers, I said, emphatically, I was put on earth to write this book. I knew that was true. I know that's true still. And I would be happy if one person felt less alone, that would be enough. And in the writing process, I was like, well, how am I going to do this? I better be fucking entertaining. I want them to stick with me. Let's not make this a slog. So I think of it as entertainment in some ways. And that's sort of how I write precisely to your point, because it's a lot easier to deal with because it's a both end. Life sucks, and it's amazing. Yeah,

Susie Moore:

I completely agree. And you say you don't believe everything happens for a reason. One thing that I do believe is that there aren't accidents. So for example, even just your background, the work that you've done, the gifts that you have to be able to, because being funny. I mean, look, people can learn it and practice it, but some people are just funny. Just got to hand it to them. And if that's who you are and you've had this specific life experience and you can combine them, that's unique. I believe that anyone can write, I believe that anyone can share stories, and I wish that everyone did almost. But the way that you do it, the way you deliver it, I think it's absolutely. Yeah.

Tara Schuster:

Thank you.

Susie Moore:

It's meant to be, oh my gosh, how quickly the time goes. What's next for you, Tara? What is there for us to look forward to? What's shaken behind the scenes?

Tara Schuster:

So I'm now taking time to do courses and a mastermind, because there's nothing more satisfying than watching this work in real time. Having, someone will say, they'll take one of my four week workshops, they're on Zoom and say, oh, it's changed my life. I'm like, really? But for real though. And I think part of it is just all the programs. I do have a community aspect to it. So you're just with like-minded souls who are on the same path. So I'm taking a moment to build these courses. And I also have a newsletter on Substack. It's funny, I started as an executive in tv, and then I was like all of a sudden an author, and now I'm teaching, which I would have never predict. I'm kind of selfish. So the idea that I enjoy this is wild to me, and yet it's true.

Susie Moore:

So where does everybody go to follow you to sign up for your newsletter? So the books are available everywhere. Books are sold. Both of 'em. Yeah. So where do we go if we're like, oh, how do I follow Tara?

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. Well, I spend a lot of time on Instagram where I'm just Tara Schuster with a SCH, so a lot on Instagram. My Substack is, if you go to my website,                           taraschuster.com, there's buttons everywhere for newsletter, workshop. But I have a weekly free workshop, or excuse me, weekly newsletter where I talk about one self-care tip or one thing I'm thinking about. And then I have a paid tier, which is a journaling club. So if you want hot prompts, hot out the oven prompts to help you with your journaling, it's great. I love doing it.

Susie Moore:

Tara, what a joy chatting with you today. Thank you for being here, for being so real, showing off as you and for the work you're doing and sharing. What a joy for me to spend time with you. Thank you. True.

Tara Schuster:

Thank you for having me. It is completely mutual. Thank you.

Susie Moore:

And Tara, one last question. I always love to wrap on this. What's one thing you do? You can't say journalling because you already said it. Ha ha. What's one thing that you do consistently that allows your life to be easier?

Tara Schuster:

Oh, that's such a good question. I always take my makeup off, which I know that's not going for the spiritual answer here, but by always taking my makeup off. My skin is in really great condition, and thus, I've made my life easier by not having to get things done. I just did what they said. Always take off your makeup, and wear sunscreen. And so to date, I feel like I've saved myself a lot of money.

Susie Moore:

And you're winning. You're winning.

Tara Schuster:

Yeah. So I'm going to go with superficial skincare routine actually makes my life easier in the long run.

Susie Moore:

Oh, Tara, what a joy. Wow. So much love to you. Until next time, friends, follow Tara. She's hilarious. Such a joy. Check out the books. Head to tara ster.com where all the things are available. And until tomorrow, my friends, so much love and ease. Hey friend, I've got something really cool for you. I want to give you free access to my signature course called Slay Your Year, which typically sells for $997. You can check it out, all the details@slayyouryear.com. All you have to do to get access is leave me a review. Leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Take a snapshot of it and send it to info@susie-moore.com. That's info@susuie-mooree.com, and we'll get you set up with access.