Become A Badass with Jen Sincero

Welcome to Let It Be Easy with Susie Moore.

Susie Moore:

Welcome, my friend, to an interview with a true self-help legend, oh my, oh my, oh my. Jen Sincero is on the podcast today, and you may know her as the number one New York Times bestselling author of You Are a Badass. Now, when I read You Are a Badass years ago, I remember just falling in love with Jen, because she's so real, she's so relatable, she's hilarious, and she really speaks truth from her own experience. She openly shares, in her 40s, she was broke, earning $28,000 a year, living in a converted garage, and is obsessed with teaching you the real, lasting, actionable methods that allow you to propel yourself into the life that you most want.

In this interview, we speak about so many things. We speak about money, we speak about following your dreams, we speak about handling what other people think. We keep it real, and we had so much fun recording it. I think that will be palpable as soon as you start listening. So, I don't want to keep you for even one second longer than I have to. Before I introduce the wonderful Jen Sincero to you, enjoy.

Jen Sincero, who needs no introduction. Welcome to the Let It Be Easy podcast.

Jen Sincero:

Thank you.

Susie Moore:

I'm so happy you are here. I think that your books are a staple in every ambitious woman's home.

Jen Sincero:

I should hope so.

Susie Moore:

Well, they should be, if they're not. In fact, I actually just bought your calendar yesterday for 2023.

Jen Sincero:

Excellent. Thank you.

Susie Moore:

I thought what a great way to start the day in 2023 with one of your favorite sayings. I've prepared, as I just mentioned to you, a few of my favorite expressions of yours, passages from your books, things that you've said, and I just thought it'd be so fun to dive into some of them with you.

Jen Sincero:

I love this idea. Yeah, no one's ever done that. Always fun when somebody comes up with something new.

Susie Moore:

I feel I kick off with this, because we're on the brink of a new year and this month, it brings up a lot of emotions. It's not always pleasant for some people, the holidays, as you know. But I love what you said here. You said, "If you'd rather spend the holidays with your friends or your dog or digging wells in Kenya than with your family, do it." Are we allowed? Are we allowed?

Jen Sincero:

Isn't it funny what we don't allow ourselves to do?

Susie Moore:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Sincero:

Because says who, right?

Susie Moore:

Says who.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. I am a big believer in that. Also, how fun is it to do something out of obligation and then become resentful? That's always my big question. Do, it lights you up and if people really truly love you, they want you to be lit up, too.

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

If they're having a problem, it's on them.

Susie Moore:

I agree, Jen, and I feel as if there is this, how do we even say it, this invisible law or rule that there's the appropriate way to behave and a not so appropriate way to behave. In a lot of cases, the appropriate way to behave doesn't feel aligned with our integrity almost.

Jen Sincero:

I know. Why do we follow these rules? Seriously, who is the boss of us? Who makes them up? And why do we have to play? It just doesn't make any sense to me at all, really. Not just to be a rebel for rebel's sake, but really doing stuff that really does not feel good to please other people just doesn't make sense, really.

Susie Moore:

As you go through your life, having written so many incredible bestsellers now, do you find that the majority of the time you're pleasing yourself? And not at the harming other people, willy-nilly. But do you find that as you go through life, you are really consciously thinking about what will bring you pleasure and peace and focusing on that?

Jen Sincero:

I have to say more than because of the books, it's more age, the older I get, oh my God, you better watch out if you're trying to guilt trip me.

Susie Moore:

I wouldn't dare.

Jen Sincero:

I just don't have the energy, honestly. I just don't have the energy to do the shove of things I don't want to do. I can't fake it anymore. I don't have the energy to... It takes too much energy to be someone you're not, to do things you don't want to do, to work yourself up to go do something somebody else wants to do that you don't want to do. I just don't. I've quoted my father, I don't know if you pulled this quote out, but-

Susie Moore:

Let's see.

Jen Sincero:

... he's like, "I don't know if you get older and wiser or older and just more tired." And I was like, "Oh my God. Exactly." It's a great gift, but you don't have to wait until you're old. I wish someone had... That I'd really latched on this earlier.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. Speaking of doing things your way, I mean, you've sold millions of books. I mean, in the last 10 years, you are the self-help author.

Jen Sincero:

That's nice.

Susie Moore:

I mean, of course you know this, I think we all know this, or many of us know this, and still you remain pretty private, it seems. I'm sure that everyone tells you, "You should be 24/7 documenting your life, showing us your breakfast taco every single moment, not for you, share with us." Is that a decision that you made or is that something that you had to navigate?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, I mean, to a degree, I feel like I share, my books are all memoir, so I do share a lot of memoir and also a lot of really embarrassing, relatable moments, because we all screw up massively constantly. Then, I feel like it can get a little out of whack. Especially, as time goes on, and more and more people read my book, I just feel I have to have good boundaries around my private life. Yeah. And I'm happy to share certain things. But, again, that really goes along with what feels good to me. If I want to show them the sunset in my backyard, which I do every day pretty much, I'm happy with that. That brings me joy sharing that. But I don't feel like I have to let people into my private life at all. I think, honestly, I just have to be honest and truthful and then I get to choose. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

Speaking of honesty, Jen, one of my favorite interviews that you did was with a friend of mine, you may recall, Veronica Dagher from the Wall Street Journal podcast, Secrets of Wealthy Women. You spoke about the importance of honesty and being honest with yourself. Here's a quote from you, you share, "Back in the day, I was always broke, living in a converted garage at the age of 40. Then I decided I was unavailable to live my life without reality, so I decided to change it." This is, of course, first of all, very honest, but I think maybe the average person listening to this, if they haven't read your books yet, they might go, "Wow, can you just make a decision like that?" Is that really available?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

It's almost annoying. Because you're like, "Seriously? That's all I had to do and I've been sitting in this dump for this long?" But yeah, I mean, and think about it, everybody who's listening to this, you have done it before, you have decided something as opposed to sort of meekly trying, or trying and then giving up, or wanting, or saying someday, every single one of you has decided something at some point that you were going to go do regardless, regardless. And you did it. We all do it.

It really is so interesting, because that decision, everything starts with mindset. Everything starts with mindset. You think about it, you're going to do 50 sit-ups and by 38 you're just like, "I'm so over this." You make that decision in that moment to give up or not to give up. It's a decision. So, anything that you're pushing yourself through, there's always a very long enticing list of reasons to give up or not do it or whatever. But that decision is what is going to override all of those very convenient and familiar excuses.

So, that's why I say, when I decided to not be broke anymore, and to actually go and get rich, that was a very serious decision that I made. Then everything that I did from that moment on, because I was so not kidding, fell under the lens of that decision. If it was going to make me money, if it was going to strengthen my wealth consciousness, whatever it was, that's what I was interested in.

Susie Moore:

I love it. You said in another interview, "If it's not making me money, I'm not doing it." That was your clarity. And I was like, "Yes." I was like, "Why can't that be everyone's mantra?" Especially those who are like, "I don't have enough money. I don't make enough money. My income's fixed." Look, we're in a tricky world right now, prices are fluctuating so much. Can I ask a bit more about this, Jen, if it's not making me money, I'm not doing it. Could you speak to this for a moment for us?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. I'm really glad you brought it up, because I am sure that is making a lot of people uncomfortable, because we immediately go to, "If it doesn't make me money, I'm not doing it," like a lack of morals, a doing things that are not so savory for the unholy dollar. It's such a loaded thing to make the decision to make money.

Meanwhile, if you don't make the decision to make money, you probably won't make any. I always compare it to making the decision to go on a diet or to get into shape or get a new job. Everybody's cheering you on for those. But making the decision to make money is so tricky, because it's so loaded. I've written books on sex, I have studied religion, and I still feel like money is far more loaded than all of them.

So, this is kind of why I'm so excited to talk about this, because it is, you have to make that decision regardless of what other people think. Of course, if you're a good person, you're not going to compromise your morals, you're not going to step on other people's necks to get where you need to go. But what you are going to do is to really think you have a limited amount of time in each day and a limited amount of energy. If it worth... If your goal, if your decision is to make money, you have to really look at stuff and be like, okay, is it on path? Is it on topic for what I'm doing?

I was really, really, I mean, obviously, I had fun and I slept and did things that didn't make me money, but I was very, very focused on any work especially I did, and just networking and going out there and being very serious about it and intentional.

Susie Moore:

So, if someone's listening, they can hear you at the pinnacle, a truly self-help author. Like, wow, what a movement you've created, Jen. Knowing that in your 40s, you're earning, you're very open about this, $28,000 a year to now. Was it an instantaneous switch for you that, "Okay, this is it, enough, enough of this"? Or were you gradually working up your courage bit by bit? And do you still continue to do that?

Jen Sincero:

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I made the decision and then, of course, there was the terror involved and the backtracking, but it's a muscle, right? So, strengthening your new resolve and strengthening your belief muscles, especially, it's a muscle. So, when you go to the gym, it takes time to get into shape. Of course, it took me time to get into shape, and I was reading all the wealth consciousness books, and going to all the seminars, and hiring coaches and stretching myself, doubling my rates, and terrifying myself and spending money, investing in my education and all the scary things. But everything I did just kept strengthening me and strengthening me. Today, new level, new devil, there's always, always something to work on. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

Speaking of the gym, I know one of your rules is visiting the spiritual gym, because it never ends, the education that we give ourselves and staying on track, I'm so curious to know what you consume or if there's a routine that you have, because I'm a big self-help book reader myself. Who are you reading? Is it in the morning? How do you do it?

Jen Sincero:

Well, it changes all the time, and it really depends what I'm doing. Right now, I'm just, and those are really, really juicy moment, where next year I'm going on a big tour. It's a 10-year anniversary of You Are a Badass.

Susie Moore:

Congrats.

Jen Sincero:

I'm doing a podcast for the first time, which I'm so excited. Just a lot of other... It's just work is so fun. Anyway. I really want to strengthen my spirituality and my consciousness and show up bigger than I've ever been in that regard. So, I have been really religiously meditating every single day, and I do it right when I wake up. That's a non-negotiable. As far as content, I am a total devotee of Abraham Hicks.

Susie Moore:

Me too.

Jen Sincero:

I listen to that every single day, twice. Twice a day. Music is a huge one for me, just listening to music that pumps me up and keeps... It really is about keeping your frequency high. So, certainly, I have days where I'm not so happy or stuff goes on. It's a give and take. But I'm extremely diligent about keeping my frequency high, when I can. I'm allowed to have my temper tantrums like everybody else. But there are times when you really are in the moment of choice and it's like, "Okay, come on, put on your big girl pants." So, it is that, too. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

So, are you meditating guided, or you can do it on your own?

Jen Sincero:

I'm doing it on my own.

Susie Moore:

So, for how long?

Jen Sincero:

Well, sometimes I do it guided, but lately I prefer on my own, it changes. I'm sure your stuff changes, too, just it's sort of what you're in the mood for and what's really working in the moment.

Susie Moore:

With Abraham Hicks, do you just type something into YouTube, "Abraham Hick's confidence. Abraham Hicks discomfort"? Do you just do what you fancy each day?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. I honestly just do Abraham Hicks and every day they upload new ones. Those guys are amazing. And I don't watch the silly little... They have those cartoons on the YouTube ones, I don't know. But they're fine. But I just listen to it. I have a dog and I walk him and every... It's a routine. Every morning he needs a walk. Every morning I need to hear that. So, it's great.

Susie Moore:

Who's on your playlist? Who are your favorite high-vibing musical artists?

Jen Sincero:

Oh God, it's so embarrassing. I am so old school. I am totally grandma when it comes to music. But I'm like, okay. I like Neil Young. He's not my vibe though. He's what I'm allowed to sit in whatever, melancholy. What am I listening to? Let me see if I can try and be hip here. I like Lizzo, I like LCD Soundsystem, but at this point, they're ancient, too. Just when I think I'm like on the cutting edge, I'm like, "That was 10 years ago already?"

Susie Moore:

You did say Lizzo. Hey, listen, we got to give you some credit.

Jen Sincero:

Okay. Yeah, I was just trying there. I got really into this band that I loved when I lived in LA and I can't even pronounce the name, it's like Fujiya & Miyagi, do you know those guys?

Susie Moore:

Sounds cool. It sounds too cool for me.

Jen Sincero:

See, I'm so cool. Then, I'll just put on, I love house music and I don't know any of the artist's names. That's what's so fun about the modern world is you put on a streaming service and you hear a song you like, and then you play the radio station of that song, and you just learn so much. I love it. I'm so happy I was born when I was born.

Susie Moore:

I know. What I love that you're illustrating now too though, Jen, is the fact that this is a practice, it's almost like a discipline that you follow to... Like we said, not without temper tantrums, not without bad days, not without all the experiences of being human, but it's not like you wake up and you're like, "Amazing day today." That doesn't just happen.

Jen Sincero:

Right. You have to train yourself.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. Because people have said to me for many years now, "Are you always like this?" And I'm like, like it's a criticism almost, or like I'm a bimbo, and I'm like, "You know what? It takes a lot of work for me to be like this."

Jen Sincero:

Yes.

Susie Moore:

Thank you very much.

Jen Sincero:

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Susie Moore:

Of course, I mean, reading your book, and the way that you infuse humor, you said that being a comedy writer, adding it to self-help has been so fun for you.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. I think most people do this. I wrote the books I wanted to read. But I do have to preface that with all of the self-help books that came before mine helped me so, so, so much. But I was like, "God, it could be so much funnier and ruder," and whatever.

Susie Moore:

In the original Badass book, you list all of your favorite resources, and I was like, "Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. Consuming your work. What a joy." There's one thing that you say, Jen, that I loved, and I'm like, I'm going to quote this, of course, it's repeating to you, but it's so, so good. "So often we pretend we've made a decision, well, when what we've really done is sign up to try until it gets too uncomfortable." Oh, I think everyone feels guilty of this. Could you speak to us about this? Because I feel as if, uh. You can always feel it in someone, "Yeah, okay, yeah, I'll try that. Yeah, yeah. I've committed. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do the business." And you're like, "Are you really?"

Jen Sincero:

Right. I know. I mean, the thing is, but it's all about how you frame it. So, you sign up until it gets too uncomfortable. Of course, you decide you're going to lose weight. You have to work out. You have to not eat when you're hungry sometimes, or you have to eat food that you're not too excited about eating. It's going to be uncomfortable.

However, if you look at that discomfort only and you don't realize it's going to be really uncomfortable lugging around those extra 50 pounds, it's going to be uncomfortable feeling like I've let myself down. It's going to be uncomfortable not totally going for it, and being in my power and loving my beautiful body. There's a way to flip it where you're uncomfortable anyway, so why not be uncomfortable in the direction of the think you're going for?

Susie Moore:

And get something out of it, right?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, growth is uncomfortable, but that's how you know you're on the right track. If you're comfortable, you're not doing anything to change.

Susie Moore:

Oh my gosh. I always think, Jen, if I'm not slightly uncomfortable all the time on some level, I mean, not every second of every day, but unless there's some fear in me, I'm probably coasting a little and have been for a while.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, absolutely.

Susie Moore:

So, the discomfort is good. One thing that you say here, which I think is, it's so good, "Acknowledging that there's something you desire, not going after it and deciding that, 'You know what, it's fine, I'll just focus on what I do have, make myself a ham sandwich and call it a day,' isn't happiness, it's denial." The reason I love this passage is because I think that sometimes we trick ourselves almost like we get self-help wrong, or even someone like Abraham wrong, thinking, "If I just say I feel great, I feel great, I feel great," we can almost gratitude ourselves into submission with what we already have. But I don't have cancer, but my kids are healthy, so that's enough. I think that sometimes there's a bit of a fine line with that. What do you think?

Jen Sincero:

I love this question. It's so good. It's so true. Here's the thing, absolutely be grateful that you don't have cancer and that your kids are healthy and that you get to live where you live. And my God, I mean, walk around sobbing in gratitude all day long. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. You don't either get to be grateful for what you have or grow. It's both. It's be super grateful for every single thing. Then also be excited and grateful for all the stuff that you're going to grow into. Because it's the law of nature. Growth is the law of nature. Like trees don't hit a certain height and then call it a day until they die. It's our nature to keep growing and expanding and learning. It's part of who you are. So, it is, I think you should absolutely be, quote, unquote, "satisfied" with where you're at and excited to grow.

Susie Moore:

Do you think that there's a way of identifying in the body almost where you are at? Because sometimes I think we can lie to ourselves so thoroughly. For example, when I was growing up, my father was an addict, he died of addiction. We moved around a lot living in domestic violence shelters. My mom would always say, "Oh, we have each other, that's enough. We have each other, that's enough." I'm like, "I'd like a little more than this."

Jen Sincero:

Do you go, "I'd like a bite. I would like a bike."

Susie Moore:

And look, we'd lived on church donations. They would give us things. But she always had this terrible relationship with money. I had to learn a lot. A relationship with just even receiving, and life is so much of an unlearning of things, right?

Jen Sincero:

Oh, absolutely.

Susie Moore:

All the influences that we have. So, do you think that there is a way of... How do you identify when something needs to change?

Jen Sincero:

Look at your life, if you're living somewhere that doesn't make you happy, or just... Listen to when you get jealous of other people talking about their lives, that's a good one for me. I basically want everybody's life and mine. I'm like, "That's so cool." But what lights you up? What are you drawn to? What are you interested in learning about? We're not all the same. So, the things that you're interested in that excite you are meant for you. Not everybody wants to have a podcast or be a self-help author or whatever. So, if it's interesting and exciting to you, that's how you know. Then if you don't have it or you've decided you can't have it or whatever, then that's an area you could work on.

Susie Moore:

Yeah, I loved, I heard you say in an interview, I think it was on the Today Show, I was scouring your press page, and you said, "Look at what you complain about. Look at-"

Jen Sincero:

Yes.

Susie Moore:

Right? Because people will complain about their marriage for two decades, or they'll complain about their friends. People complain about their friends. I'm like, "You get to choose those, you know?"

Jen Sincero:

Yes, exactly.

Susie Moore:

Don't complain to me about your friends, you crazy?

Jen Sincero:

That's so funny.

Susie Moore:

We're lumped with the family, right? But, I mean, I think the areas of complaint, I think that we feel entitled to those.

Jen Sincero:

To our complaints?

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Oh Yeah.

Susie Moore:

I think that we're like-

Jen Sincero:

Isn't it funny?

Susie Moore:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, we get off on it, and we engage other people. Like if somebody complains about something we complain about, we're like, "Oh my God." Right? In fact, we're kind of doing it right now.

Susie Moore:

Oh, I love that. When you say you can look at someone and go, "Oh, I like that, what she has." Or sometimes it comes up as envy, as a feeling of, "Oh." Do you have feelings like that still if you observe someone and go, "Oh, but she's doing this thing really well, or that thing really well, or he's figured that out"? Do those feelings still come up for you?

Jen Sincero:

Of course. It's interesting when they do. It's funny, I was looking at another self-help author who has 2 million followers on Instagram, and I'm so wimpy about social media. My niece is always like, "Are you kidding me? You have 155,000 followers. Aunt, you're so useless." I was like, "I know." Then I saw somebody else who had millions who was in my field, and I was like, "I want that."

Then I thought a little more deeply about it, and I was like, "I actually do not care at all." So, it was more my ego wanting to be as popular or as successful or whatever, and I was like, "I don't really care." If I do care, then I have to go do something about it. But I think it's so interesting our sort of knee-jerk reactions to things, anything that is knee-jerk is the one that needs the most questioning, because it's a pattern, and it's a should, and it's some belief. And maybe it is true, maybe if I did want it, then rock on, and go do it.

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah.

Susie Moore:

How do you decipher? Your niece will say, "Oh, this is crazy. You should have all." And then someone else who says "She doesn't even write very well, she just writes whatever it is that comes up."

Jen Sincero:

Right. Sure.

Susie Moore:

Then you're like, "I got to get on this." Then almost like there's a slight shame feeling that you haven't figured it out, perhaps. Then there's a feeling of, "Oh, well, I've got to take some action now." So, a weird urgency. Then a deflation once you actually breathe and go, "I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck about-"

Jen Sincero:

Well, there's not even deflation, it's almost elation. It's like, "Ah, great. I don't have to do anything."

Susie Moore:

Because everyone will also give you advice, right?

Jen Sincero:

Oh, yeah.

Susie Moore:

"Oh, Jen, you should be that, you should be..." Like, "Oh, you should have a YouTube channel." It never ends all the things that you can be doing.

Jen Sincero:

Yes, correct.

Susie Moore:

So, how do you really decide for you the best way to be discerning with your...?

Jen Sincero:

Oh my gosh, another great question. Before, in the old days, it used to be like, "Will it make me money?" That was really because I was on a path, man. Now I am utterly flabbergasted and delighted and grateful to say that I don't have to do that anymore. I don't. The money's good, and it's coming, and it's continuing, and I don't plan on it stopping, but that is not part of the equation anymore. Now my three questions are, the first one is, will it be fun? Second one is, will it give me energy or deplete my energy? And the third one is, does it have meaning? And I hold everything up for those three things. And it's so great. My life is so much fun right now, because everything has to pass that test. So, I don't do it if it doesn't-

Susie Moore:

Oh my gosh, write these down, friends. Okay, will it be fun? Will it give or take my energy? And does it have meaning? According to you.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, exactly.

Susie Moore:

What a great filtering system.

Jen Sincero:

I had to think about it, because, believe me, I was really lost at sea around the pandemic. I put out Badass Habits, which by the way, I don't know how the hell I wrote a motivational book in 2020. I do not know how I did it. It was talk about wow.

Susie Moore:

It's incredible.

Jen Sincero:

It was really, I was in a fugue state. I honestly forget I even wrote that book all the time. But, anyway, so I did that. Then, I couldn't go... I did my little Zoom tour. Then, after that, I wasn't under contract anymore, and I was used to staying home in my pajamas, and I was like, "Sweet, I'm going to retire. This is great." Then I got really bored.

Honestly, I'm just coming out of it. It was a good two and a half years where I was... Did you read that? There was that whole sort of, not movement, but discussion about languishing that some guy wrote the thing in the New York Times about, "You're not suicidal, you're not even really depressed. You're just kind of like, eh, what's the point? The almighty meh." I was just in such a meh state where I couldn't get excited about a damn thing. None of the things that I used to get excited like traveling, being out in nature, hiking, all of it, I was like, "Eh, I guess, I'll do it."

It was very upsetting, actually, because I've never been like that, and I'm so grateful to say that I am back. I think I just had to kind of wait it out. Then I came up with this, how am I going to decide what I'm doing? Fun, energy and meaning, and it really has worked well for me, but I had to put a lot of thought into it. Because I was like, "I don't have that motivation anymore of having to support myself. So what the hell?"

Susie Moore:

Now that you are out of it, because sometimes this can, depending on what you believe, it could be like an astronomical cycle, astrological cycle, sorry. It is possible. Who knows what... Yeah, what knows?

Jen Sincero:

I'm game for all of it. We're on a ball in infinite space, could it be anything.

Susie Moore:

Exactly. What do we know? What does anybody know?

Jen Sincero:

Yes, exactly.

Susie Moore:

So, looking back on that period, do you feel almost gratitude for it for any reason? Like any appreciation for [inaudible 00:28:58]?

Jen Sincero:

Oh yeah, I do. First of all, I think it's really important to go through challenges like that, because it makes you a lot more compassionate for other people who are. It was a great, I'm a big believer, too, and things have to be sort of fallow and everything dies, everything has a winter, before it can spring up again. This whole concept of a midlife crisis, which I think I'm past, since I'm past my midlife, but you reinvent yourself, not just in midlife, but over and over and over again.

So, I'm 57 and what I wanted when I was 47 is very different than what I wanted now. I think a lot of us sort of don't know who the hell we are and what the hell we want as we age, because it changes. So, I think there isn't really a lot of attention put on that, and you're just sort of supposed to know. So, I think giving yourself the permission and the opportunity to take some time and figure it out for the new version of yourself, it's really time well spent. So, I do feel like that albeit long time that I spent playing with my lips, staring at a wall, I'm grateful for it, because it did give me time to figure it out.

Susie Moore:

I think it's such a relief to hear that somebody like you, who's come up with such wisdom that's been so helpful to millions, you had a period, you had a period where you didn't feel like the biggest badass in the whole world going out and just taking the world by the balls. I think, because we all go through these cycles. It's unavoidable, people everywhere. The thing is, when you are in it, you don't know what's going to end, right?

Jen Sincero:

Right.

Susie Moore:

Is this it? Is there something wrong?

Jen Sincero:

Is this who I am? Is this it now? Yeah.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. It just lifted over time. Oh, it was a while, but it did lift.

Jen Sincero:

Gosh, I'm trying to think what spawned it. I mean, certainly the fact that it wasn't a given that I was going to go on a tour with You Are a Badass, and it was not a given that my publisher would reissue 10th anniversary edition. So, we sort of needed that to have something to celebrate in a way. So, I didn't know it was going to happen.

When it did, then I had to start thinking about what I wanted to do, and we were thinking maybe a talk show, and I was like, "Yeah, I don't want to work that hard. I don't have to show up every day." If I could even get a talk show, let's start there.

Susie Moore:

Early in the morning. Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, right? Early in the morning, brush my hair every day. Then it was just sort of, I've hired a publicist and I am going to get that Instagram following up more for my niece than anybody. But it made me start thinking about what I wanted to do professionally, and it lit the spark, thank God, because I'm so excited about next year, and even this year getting prepared for it.

I think I was just ready to stop. But you know what? It's a good... And I don't want to take a lot of time on this, but there was something that... It didn't even happen, but it was more of an awakening like I just kind of woke up from it. I remember thinking, "Oh my God, I'm out." And it wasn't all about the book, but I can't remember.

Susie Moore:

I'm telling you, I think it was an astrological cycle. That's just my-

Jen Sincero:

Okay. What happened? When did it happen? And what was it?

Susie Moore:

I'll give my astrology.

Jen Sincero:

Really?

Susie Moore:

Oh yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Oh, I can't wait to hear.

Susie Moore:

We're meant to go through these seasons, they're very intentional for our development.

Jen Sincero:

Okay.

Susie Moore:

You don't get to pick, the universe picks, but here we are and here you are energized for your lovely new year.

Jen Sincero:

All right.

Susie Moore:

So, speaking of this and how you took that time for yourself and didn't pressure yourself or push yourself, you did what you needed to do. You say to Jen, "Take care of yourself as if you're the most awesome person you've ever met." I feel like if I said to most people, "Take care of yourself as well as you take care of your dog," they'd be like, "Wow, my dog is spoiled. But me, I don't need to sleep. I can work to-"

Jen Sincero:

Right, right.

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Isn't it interesting?

Susie Moore:

Could you speak to us about that for a moment? Because I feel like maybe 1% of the population do this.

Jen Sincero:

I know. It's so interesting, isn't it?

Susie Moore:

Mm-hmm.

Jen Sincero:

And it's learned, because my dog doesn't "take care of me," quote, unquote. I mean, he totally does just by showing up.

Susie Moore:

By being alive.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. But I think it's such an interesting thing to realize that his joy and his enthusiasm and his cuteness is making me live longer, because I'm happier so much more of the time, and I have to exercise, to take him for a walk, when I totally don't feel like it. So, it's like he's giving so much just by being himself. I don't think we realize that just by being our most authentic, beautiful, badass, happiest selves, we're helping other people. We've been taught to think of that as selfish, which it is, but selfish is good. It is not bad. And that you spreading yourself thin and having terrible boundaries, and doing what others want, and throwing yourself under the bus, putting everybody else's needs first, being resentful, being passive-aggressive, feeling unworthy, feeling unappreciated. It's like, come on, how hard is that equation? Who's that good for?

Susie Moore:

I know. What do we expect at the end of that? There's not a medal.

Jen Sincero:

Love. We're looking for not being abandoned in love. Yeah. Meanwhile, you can get it a much more fun way for all, really. You know what I mean? I always ask people to think about somebody that they know who really is just not taking... Can I curse?

Susie Moore:

Yeah, please.

Jen Sincero:

Okay. Not taking bullshit from anybody, who's in their power, who's joyful, who's unapologetic. It doesn't mean you don't help other people, and you don't do things for other people. In fact, it probably means you do more for other people, because you're not exhausted and resentful all the time. We know what that's like, and we know how that makes us feel. It's empowering, man. Right? So, it's like, why wouldn't you want to be empowering for other people by taking care of yourself?

Susie Moore:

The way that I hear this, the way that it connects with me, your words, is that your success, however you define that, however, maybe it's taking care of your body or just going for it, balls to the wall. It's generous.

Jen Sincero:

Yes. Right? Isn't that a twist?

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. I love it. It's all how you frame it. It is generous. You're modeling for everybody else what's possible for them, and letting them in on the big magic tricks that, yeah, you make a decision and you go do it, and you get it.

Susie Moore:

I can say, Jen, your success for me has been generous, watching you, seeing the work that you create. Also, I could be wrong, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it took your book a little while to totally take off, right? To become-

Jen Sincero:

Oh, my gosh.

Susie Moore:

... the world-dominating book.

Jen Sincero:

Three years.

Susie Moore:

Three years.

Jen Sincero:

Well, it took... Nobody, this is the biggest nanny nanny boo-boo in the whole world, nobody wanted it. We could not find a publisher anywhere. They're all like, "Oh God. Yeah. What the world needs is another self-help book."

Susie Moore:

Like J. K. Rowling, right? Here we are.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, right? Yeah. Nobody wanted it.

Susie Moore:

In a nonfiction world. Yeah. Take that.

Jen Sincero:

Right. Then I got this crappy little book deal, but we were so grateful to get anybody, and it was my third book, so I knew that you didn't make money writing books and that whatever. I just hoped it would help my coaching business at the time. Then, six months into it, my publisher was like, "What are you doing to promote this thing?" And I was like, "Well, I sent it out to my list of 10,000 people. But it must be me and all my hard work." What had happened was people would read it and then buy 10 copies and give it to their friends. It was just a total grassroots thing. And it hit the New York Times Best Seller list three years after it came out, which is really rare. And then it stayed on. I mean, it's still on five years-

Susie Moore:

I know. Wow.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. It's a miracle. I know. It's a miracle. It's a fucking miracle.

Susie Moore:

This is so generous, because, Jen, people create works of art whatever field they're in, and if it's not... If Kim Kardashian isn't tweeting about it within five minutes, they're like, "That's a failure. I give up. Not doing that again."

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, right.

Susie Moore:

I know that you created something honest from your heart, and there's an old, it's a Jewish expression that, "What comes from the heart touches the heart."

Jen Sincero:

Sounds great. So true.

Susie Moore:

Mark Nepo said, "When one heart speaks, all hearts fly." That's beautiful.

Jen Sincero:

See, that's what we mean with this self-love thing.

Susie Moore:

That's what we... So, it took you, and in that three years, you're just going about your business and your life. You were just coaching, doing your... Then when this huge success came your way and stayed, it's been so sustainable for you through what appears to be not much effort really on your part. This is the coolest thing, right? It's just maintaining itself.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. I know. Again, thank you, pandemic, because everybody was falling apart. So, everybody bought my book. Sales went up 30% in 2020.

Susie Moore:

Wow.

Jen Sincero:

I mean, I'm not happy for the pandemic.

Susie Moore:

Yes.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, no, I'm amazed. I am really so amazed and so grateful. It's so interesting, 10 years later, going on tour with it, because I wrote it when I was 10 years younger. Actually, I'm doing, right after the book came out, right after I finished the book, because I was still coaching, and I did an eight-week online coaching course when the book came out. And I taught it for a couple of years, and it's so much fun. Then it's been a DIY course on my website, and I'm relaunching that in 2023, too. I haven't coached in ages, and I'm so excited, especially the group coaching call. It's so much fun.

It's funny, because I was going to reshoot the whole course, because I shot it... I didn't have a ton of money at that point. I was on this road trip with my boyfriend at the time, and we were fighting, and I was like bags under my eye, terrible production quality. I was like, "Oh my God, this is so embarrassing. I can't use these videos anymore." But then I was like, "You know what? I'm going to keep... I'm going to shoot a new intro video explaining what was going on." But I want people to know, it's a damn good course. I'm really proud of the material. But some of the visuals are hilariously bad, and I'm like, "You can start where you're at. You don't have to be perfect. It just has to be really good." [inaudible 00:39:20] you would like to see me after being up till 5:00 crying to make a video the next morning? Take my class.

Susie Moore:

But this is also generous, you're like, just the ability to joke a old bit. I'm sure, too, you've had such an evolution yourself in the last 10 years. What's it like going back and can you imagine touring the book again, hearing everyone's favorite quotes?

Jen Sincero:

Well, no. It's what I'm super excited about, and this is sort of... Well, it's not a secret anymore for the podcast and on the tour, I want to talk to my readers and be like, "Okay, guys, you've been reading this for over the past 10 years. Who's got incredible stories that they want to share?" So, my whole podcast is going to be me interviewing readers who... Everybody sent in videos, and I'm still going through them and I am dying.

Susie Moore:

I'm sure you're crying.

Jen Sincero:

They've made me look like the schleppiest schlep. People who were on food stamps are now making seven figures. It is so incredible what people have done. So, I am so excited about that, about making about them, because really it's I gave birth and they took it for 10 years.

Susie Moore:

Yes, it's a co-creation.

Jen Sincero:

Oh, beyond. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

What would you say is the underlying, because even the word badass, it's not used as much in the UK, but I know that your book is also big there, but if you had to define what underlies or underpins a authentic badass. Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Well, it's exactly what we were talking about, somebody who is just unapologetically who they are. Giving yourself permission to be who you are and do what you love and what lights you up, that's what a badass is. And doing what it takes to make that happen and not feeling like any shame around it or any shoulds, or that you're not allowed to be too big and bright and fabulous and just whatever it is. Everybody doesn't have to be like, "[inaudible 00:41:17]." But you do in whatever that means to you. It doesn't matter what it is, but if it's your thing, you got one shot at being on earth as the you that is you, right?

Susie Moore:

I know.

Jen Sincero:

What else are you going to spend your time doing?

Susie Moore:

I don't know. Sometimes this question comes up for me, I'd love to hear your take on it, Jen. Just say that I have a goal and, of course, we have our own timelines in our mind and in our planners, when you are not on track and you're doing everything right, so you're doing all the steps, you're like, "But I did that, my marketing, my blah, blah, blah," whatever it is, and it's not arriving... Nowhere, either maybe the universe is telling you this isn't the right path, versus this is my moment to persevere, this is my final moment.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. It's kind of like that. What's the good fear and what's the lookout... How do you-

Susie Moore:

What's the I'm being a fool now? Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, exactly. I think it's practice. I think it's like a muscle, it's an intuition muscle. So, when you're doing everything right and it's not happening, I think there's two things. One, you have to check your energy around it and your beliefs around it. Is your belief, "It's got to be hard. I've got to work really hard to get what I want"? Are you super focused on the fact that it's not working? Or are you like, "It's coming, I'm doing it. I'm psyched. The universe has my back"? Where is your focus? And what are you telling yourself and what are you thinking about? That is just as important, if not more important than what you are doing. Because when you're in the zone, when you are in touch with your higher self, it's not full of fear and doubt and worry and freaking out and proof that it sucks and blah, blah, blah. Then you get the intuitive hits that give you the thought to take the action that is going to get you exactly where you want to go.

So, the energy work is paramount. Go to the spiritual gym. Then, you just have to trust that it's happening. And if you do need to course correct, if you are doing the wrong things, or the reasons it's not happening is because it's not meant to be or whatever, that is something that meditation and really feeling into it into your gut and being like, "Is this something I..." It's kind of like me wanting 2 million followers on Instagram. I really wanted it for about 10 seconds. Then I was like, "Oh." Once I thought into it. So, that's get out of your head and get into the feeling and feel it.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. I love that feeling, because the reason I love that is because no one can tell you how you feel. No one knows what's inside of you. You can look at someone, you can observe someone and go, "I don't know if that's going to work out." That's a real pipe dream, that guy wants to be a Broadway singer, or that girl don't really know if she's cut out. Then you see, or sometimes you see these incredible results later, or something surprises you and you go, "Wow." Nobody knows.

Jen Sincero:

Nobody knows.

Susie Moore:

Only we know. And don't you think too, Jen, the world that's created... The most beautiful things in the world are created or have been created by unreasonable people?

Jen Sincero:

Yes. Reasonable, a beautiful word for it. Yes. There's no reason, because it's all feeling.

Susie Moore:

Don't you think that that's where the real courage is, being able to trust the feeling and then take the next subsequent step? Because everyone's got an opinion, and there are lots of data and statistics that it won't work out.

Jen Sincero:

Of course. Yeah. And we all want to fit in and be approved of. So, that is the discomfort that most people... That's probably the biggest discomfort most people won't allow themselves is getting kicked out of the tribe or looking stupid or not being able to explain why they think it's going to work. Just getting beaten down.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. When you have ideas, do you keep them to yourself in the early stages, or do you like to share and talk them out?

Jen Sincero:

I'm kind of a big mouth. But I aspire to keeping them to myself, but I get really excited, so I talk about everything. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. I do, too. I aspire too to keep it quiet, but I'm like, "Everyone listen to this amazing idea."

Jen Sincero:

I know. I know. I know.

Susie Moore:

Okay. Can I share a couple more lovely quotes of yours-

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. Please.

Susie Moore:

... that I love?

Jen Sincero:

Sure.

Susie Moore:

Okay. That's my favorite. I want to save the one for the end. I'm just-

Jen Sincero:

Okay, great.

Susie Moore:

Let me see. Oh, "Your life is your party. You get to choose how you invite people and experiences and things into it." I think sometimes we don't think we're allowed to choose who comes to our party, because you've got to invite the neighbors, got to invite the in-laws. I love just the also definition of life as a party, because I do believe so much in fun. How powerful are we really in terms of inviting people and experience? If someone thinks, "Well, no, I'm stuck in this job and it's not a good time to change, but this is my coworker, or this is my-"

Jen Sincero:

We're on a planet in infinite space, and it's an universal intelligence that created us. So, our thoughts really, truly, I totally believe that our thoughts create our realities. So, there's that great quote, I can't remember, "Whether you think-"

Susie Moore:

You can.

Jen Sincero:

... "you can or you can't, you're right."

Susie Moore:

Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Whatever you think, whatever you decide to believe, and it's a decision what you believe.

Susie Moore:

Yes. Also, when I love to observe, people who are doing life their way, especially if people think that they're a bit strange, I'm like, "That person's my role model over there."

Jen Sincero:

Uh-huh. Weirdo.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. Who doesn't give... Who does not care, who does not exist to please you.

Jen Sincero:

Right.

Susie Moore:

Jen, when you go through life with the work that you do, there are, of course, the people who read your book, who follow you, but there are people who you're inspiring without even knowing, whose names you'll never know, who you'll never hear from by just being that example, like you, personally, like you, Jen, you being yourself, your way, your style.

I always think, too, if I've got the courage to maybe, not go against it quite, but just do things my way, even though it's unusual, even, for example, living in a country without any family for 20 years, I've never lived in the same country as my family and I love it. I love my family, but I also love the fact that I don't have to go to cousin stuff, none of that. I also don't want kids, I've never wanted them. That's also some people have opinions about that. But I'm like, "There are other women who don't," and they ask me about it, and I'm like, "I don't really have much to say." Because it's not even something that's on my mind, it's just my... Well, not even, it's just me, who I am. There's no apology, there's no explanation. It's just, well, yeah, what a great way to live, right?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah.

Susie Moore:

I think that, like you just said, it's your party, you get to decide. Living that way too isn't great for you, but it's great for anyone observing who doesn't think that they can.

Jen Sincero:

Right. Exactly. And it really is all just about leading by example. And you can tell other people till you're blue in the face. But leading by example is really the only way. Even then, it's up to them to make the decision to make the change. If they see you doing something that they think is so brave and out of the ordinary, whether or not they do, it really is ultimately up to them, regardless of you.

Susie Moore:

Speaking of that, you say here, this is so cool. "You're responsible for what you say and do. You are not responsible for whether or not people freak out."

Jen Sincero:

Someone's always going to freak out no matter what you do. Oh my God. I mean, I have gotten some of the funniest hate mail, and there was this... No matter what you do, come on.

Susie Moore:

Oh, it's true.

Jen Sincero:

There was a blogger way back in the day, it was a mommy blogger like 25 years ago, and she got so much hate mail, that she had a page on her blog that was called Monetizing the Hate, and she put all the hate mail, and Target sponsored it, because it got so many hits. I was like, "That is the most brilliant thing I've ever seen."

Susie Moore:

Wow.

Jen Sincero:

Monetizing the Hate.

Susie Moore:

Way to flip that. Way for the hate to backfire.

Jen Sincero:

Making money off of it. Oh my God, I loved that. I thought it was so genius.

Susie Moore:

It's like that actress, I'm not sure if you remember this, a couple of years ago, she was being blackmailed by someone who got her nude photos off the cloud. By the way, I didn't know this, every time you take a picture, it's uploaded to the cloud.

Jen Sincero:

Thank you for that information. I really appreciate that. Okay. Noted.

Susie Moore:

Every picture. Just don't take pictures or videos unless you-

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. Right.

Susie Moore:

Just don't. Just use your memory, use your eyes.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah, exactly.

Susie Moore:

But she was threatened, and so she gave him money, then she gave him more, and then she went like F it, and she just posted them all herself. She's like, "These are my nude photos." She just posted them online. She's like, "There you go. The damage is done."

Jen Sincero:

Oh my God.

Susie Moore:

Isn't it funny the way we can react to different [inaudible 00:50:26]?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah.

Susie Moore:

I know.

Jen Sincero:

Oh my God.

Susie Moore:

Okay, one more thing here. Because I love it and then I [inaudible 00:50:31]-

Jen Sincero:

I got to check my phone the second we get [inaudible 00:50:33], what pictures I have of sitting here like mortified.

Susie Moore:

What do I have? What secret? I know. And you're famous. There are two more quotes here I'd love to share, and one is so beautiful, I'd love to wrap on, but this is such a good one. "Perfectionism and procrastination have such a fine line. You say, 'Well, I want it to be good. I want it to be perfect.' But what you're really doing is not doing your work. You're putting off showing up and being visible, because you're going to be judged and it might suck." Yeah.

Jen Sincero:

Yeah. Listen, you will be judged no matter or what. So, you might as well just get it up there. You're going to, there is no way in hell you're not going to get judged.

Susie Moore:

I agree. I remember when I was first starting out and I started getting mean comments, I would look up celebrities that I loved just to see what type of hate they got. For example, Adele, and that was at a time when Adele was... Rolling in the Deep, everyone was upset. It seemed that every single person was obsessed with Adele. I managed to find lots of criticism though, and it was like, "Her vapid, vacuous voice." Some people were saying, had all these theories how she wasn't human.

Jen Sincero:

Oh, man. See?

Susie Moore:

See?

Jen Sincero:

That's what you're dealing with. Yeah.

Susie Moore:

I know. Then I was researching how the Dalai Lama's a conman, and I'm like, "Oh, see?" You can't give your life to the people. You can't do anything.

Jen Sincero:

Right. Absolutely. No, it's coming. That's why. And just as important, you should not get caught up in the accolades either, because if you are sitting there reading all your five star reviews and thinking about how great you are and getting all teary-eyed over how much everybody loves you, then you're screwed, too. So, it really is just about doing what feels good, what is fun, what is true, what you feel compelled to do. That's all that matters. Because that outside stuff can change on a dime.

Susie Moore:

We've seen this in history many, many times. Do you read your reviews? Do you read your fan mail? I mean, no one sends that anymore.

Jen Sincero:

I read. I don't read my Amazon reviews. I don't read reviews about my book or any of that stuff. But I do read when people take the time to write in, my assistant answers it, but he CCs me on everything. So, I do read everything everybody writes in. Because if they take the time to do it, I want to read it for sure. I just don't answer them all.

Susie Moore:

Of course. I mean, I know, the lovely Nate, by the way. He's a gem.

Jen Sincero:

I know.

Susie Moore:

He's a gem.

Jen Sincero:

I know.

Susie Moore:

And you're a busy lady, too, so I feel like he's got a lot to manage. No?

Jen Sincero:

It's all smoke and mirrors. I'm not that busy. I just woke up out of a two-and-a-half-year coma. No, Nate's had a pretty smooth ride for the last two and a half years. Trust me.

Susie Moore:

Lucky Nate. Oh my gosh. I'm trying to choose which quote to end on, because there are two, and I love them both.

Jen Sincero:

[inaudible 00:53:25].

Susie Moore:

One is about... Ah, okay. I think this one, because we're heading into a new year, you see, I'm battling with myself, because I haven't got you forever, sadly. Okay, this is lovely. "Will you lose everything if you open your own restaurant? Who knows? Will unleashing your secret desire to teach tap dancing ruin your reputation as a professional wrestler? Who knows? And who cares? Unless your unknown puts you at risk of death, prison, or bodily harm, you have nothing to lose except living a dull, uninspired life."

Jen Sincero:

Which book is that from?

Susie Moore:

You're a Badass. Isn't it amazing going back and hearing your work or rereading?

Jen Sincero:

Oh God. Yeah. Right? That's that flip I'm talking about. The fear of failure needs to be less than the fear of living a whole [inaudible 00:54:22] life on your one shot in planet Earth, right?

Susie Moore:

Oh yes. I always say I want to go to the grave with my makeup smudged, exhausted, empty martini glass in hand, going, "Take me now. I am tired. I used everything you gave me." That's winning.

Jen Sincero:

Exactly. Exactly. Right.

Susie Moore:

One way I love to end the podcast, Jen, is to ask, what's one thing you do in your life consistently that allows it to be easier?

Jen Sincero:

I catch myself in thoughts that are not moving me in the direction I want to go. I'm getting really good at catching myself before launching a complaint or feeling sorry for myself or focusing on something that's bothering me. That's been sort of the past six months of just getting really diligent about that and, man, it makes your hair stand up. What comes in when you get out of resistance and into the flow? It's so fun. I feel like I got in on a magic trick. I really do. That's why I wrote these books, because I feel like I got in on a magic trick and I'm just like, "Oh my God, you guys, check it out," because it doesn't... Well, I was thinking about a quote. I'm going to end on a different quote-

Susie Moore:

We could keep going for years.

Jen Sincero:

... that I stole from a friend and I put it in You Are a Badass, "It's so easy once you figure out it isn't hard." Right? It's so easy once you figure out it isn't hard. We are the biggest drama queens. What all we need to do is shift our thoughts and our focus and everything will shift.

Susie Moore:

So, when you're shifting your thoughts and focus, you catch it, because you start to feel a slight negative emotion and then you go, "Oh, I need a bit of a redirect, or I need an upgrade right now," and in the first few seconds, you can do that?

Jen Sincero:

Sometimes, not always, it's a practice, but certainly I'm getting way... And it's just that because I go to the spiritual gym and I'm practicing. I'm aware of it. Honestly, for me it's like I just really want to see how good I can get at this and what I can manifest. It's fun. Right? It's like an adventure, instead of just being like... I can't-

Susie Moore:

Can I ask one more question?

Jen Sincero:

Yeah.

Susie Moore:

If someone, for example, they're going to go give a presentation maybe to their boss or maybe to, I don't know, a Zoom community and they're really nervous. You can really go, "I suck. I'm not prepared. The tech's going to break. I hate my own voice." You can have all these-

Jen Sincero:

That sounds fun.

Susie Moore:

Yeah. I have all these filler words. I am not polished. If those thoughts were coming up for you in that situation, how would you give a redirect?

Jen Sincero:

Oh my gosh. First of all, I would focus on what's so fun about giving a talk and more importantly what the material is that you're excited to share and how it's going to change other people's lives. If you make it not about you and your ego, and everybody loving you, and you looking good, and knocking out of the park and you're just like, "I want one person to hear something that is going to completely change your lives," that will get you out of your ego and your nerves.

Susie Moore:

Jen Sincero, where should everyone go to get your courses, of course, your book? Where can we direct everybody?

Jen Sincero:

Oddly enough, jensincero.com, or the same, but youareabadass.com also goes straight to my website. My course is launching in February. I haven't started selling it yet, but I'm coming very soon, if you get on my email list, you'll be the first to know, and you can see all those bad videos I made 10 years ago.

Susie Moore:

How do we get it on your tour?

Jen Sincero:

Same, just if you get on my mailing list, or you follow me on Instagram, or any of those things.

Susie Moore:

It's all going to be there.

Jen Sincero:

Yes. I will be talking about it all the time, because I'm going to get a little bit better at social media.

Susie Moore:

On Jen's site too, when you head over, you can get her 10 Rules for Badass Living, which are so awesome. Easy. Print them out, tape them somewhere. I beseech you. Oh my. Jen, what a joy, what a privilege for me to speak with you. Thank you so much for being with us.

Jen Sincero:

That was so much fun. You're such an amazing interviewer. I've done a lot and you really have an interesting way of doing it, which I so appreciate, you're so smart and funny and adorable and inspirational.

Susie Moore:

Oh, start. Oh, start. Thank you so much, Jen.

Jen Sincero:

Thank you. Thank you. This was a blast.

Susie Moore:

Until next time.

Jen Sincero:

Okay, great. Take care.

Susie Moore:

Hey, friend, I've got something really cool for you. I want to give you free access to my signature course called Slay Your Year, which typically sells for $997. You can check it out, all the details at slayyouryear.com. All you have to do to get access is leave me a review. Leave a review for this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Take a snapshot of it and send it to info@susie-moore.com. That's info@susie-moore.com and we'll get you set up with access.